To Legalize or Not to legalize?

[DigitalTreant]

There are many people who believe that pot should be at least as available as beer and tobacco.  I've thought this too, but after nearly 6 days of abstinence from weed, I wonder if there are any real benefits to making it legal.  One that is quite obvious to me is that it would be far easier for the authorities to keep it out of kids grasp, eliminating both the ill effects of weed smoking in adolesence and keeping curious kids from getting to 'harder' drugs like meth and heroin.  Another is the tax revenue that it would generate.  Both of these seem to be good reasons, but upon closer examination I wonder if any of them really are.  I think that perhaps, just perhaps, there are people who would prefer people to live in a hazy cloud of unreality than waking up and seeing what is going on.  It IS harmful to you, more so in pre-puberty and adolesence.  I was discussing weed with my mother and she informed me that, before I could remember, my older brother, who was just entering puberty at the time, began to develop breasts.  Panicked, she took him to our family doctor, who upon examination asked my brother how much weed he was smoking!  He's been ardently against weed since then.  I don't know about the rest of you men, but I know that I'd get kinda freaked out if I began to develop boobs!

Anyway, I'd like to pose the question, are there any other good reasons to make weed legal?  Are there any good reasons to keep it illegal?  For me, I've seen people loose themselves on both legal AND illegal substances.  To my ever-clearing head, it seems that life presents plenty of challenges and obstacles to a person without adding more of your own volition.  People WILL do what they want, but is it so good to give legitimacy the bad choices we sometimes make?

Digital Treant

[Weedless Wench]

Oooh the age old question... I used to pro-legalisation. Of course I did, I was a pot head!! But I am not so sure now. On the one hand yeah, the government could get tax on it, and lets face it, in the UK that would be the only tax they claw back from one section of the population that seem to know only how to drain the rest of the country of its wealth while they sit on their arses doing sweet fa while I break my back to pay for them... But that is another issue really. I think if the government legalised and regulated cannabis it would be a good thing in that the quality would probably improve (I hear growers are sprinkling ground up glass on skunk to look like THC crystals these days - nice) but the blackmarket would still persist and would likely get out of control as it would be LESS of a concern of the police. I dont know what it is like in the States DT, but over here, alcohol (and "binge drinking") are a major problem, because it is so cheap and easy to get hold of. I worry that if cannabis was legal, it is like saying it is ok to do it. It would become more socially acceptable and I think many kids that wouldnt touch it now, would be more likely to do it. I think the effect of this on the NHS and particularly mental health services would be too much. It is bad enough trying to deal with all the drink and cigarette smoking related diseases without this added burden. I have read umpteen times that if alcohol had been discovered later in history, this would be a class A drug. Why dont they ban this instead? Not a popular opinion, but to me it is kind of the same question. And part of me still says if alcohol is legal, weed should be too. I do still believe (despite my recent quit) that weed is the lesser of two evils. So some consistency in policy is called for. But which is the right answer, ban alcohol or legalise weed? It is beyond me! Anyone else have any ideas?

Weedless x

[DigitalTreant]

Weedless said; in the UK that would be the only tax they claw back from one section of the population that seem to know only how to drain the rest of the country of its wealth while they sit on their arses doing sweet fa while I break my back to pay for them...

Absolutely! I feel exactly the same way about that particular part of the argument.  Here in the US we've got that same problem, many millions of people who complain that they have a bad lot in life and need more help and will wait for 'Superman' or something to come and save them.  B.S. bigtime!

DigitalTreant

[Weedless Wench]

I'm telling ya DT, never move to the UK. In one way I am proud of our welfare state and I do think it is necessary to help the people who CANNOT work for health reasons. But the government is stupid - they have made it so cushy that there is no incentive for people to get off benefits and look for work. I had a friend who had a baby at 17 (a few years ago) and she was given a 3 bedroom house with a massive garden, all paid for by the welfare state. She has never worked since and nobody is making her, yet her kid has been in school for 3 years now and she is a healthy adult. But she says she would be worse off working than she is now because she never finished college so couldn't get a good enough job. Now, part of me is really pissed off because she has more disposal income than me (well she did then, not sure about now). But part of me cannot blame her, it is governmental policy that is so backwards!! Now we are still trying to claw our way out of recession, the government are finally seeing the error of their ways, but it is difficult to go back... at the end of the day, all of these people being paid for by ME still have the right to vote and with an election coming up, the government need to be very careful - either way, I think I will lose out, cuz they will have to raise taxes. It sucks. I think I might say screw this and take my skills somewhere else! Might join you in the States. Never liked the idea of such a free market but I personally would be much better off!

Weedless x

[DigitalTreant]

I agree with that.  Some people don't have a more traditional support structure to rely on, like close family.  When those people hit hard times, where should they turn?  We can't turn a blind eye to the needs of those in dire straits, but they've got to be made to do for themselves eventually.  I couldn't imagine getting my home paid for by the government.  I've heard many good suggestions on how to manage welfare.  One of them is urinalysis testing.  Lets say for arguments sake that your friend is being paid for by the state, but is up to her neck in illegal drugs.  Why should the state be forced to pay for somebody that could work but is too high to even get up on time?  I know in our country many people who are on welfare abuse a plethora of drugs, from pharmacuticals to alcohol.  Needless to say, this wouldn't fly in America because there are too many people who would complain about the 'invasion of privacy' that such a policy would represent.

Still, there are concerted efforts in our country to decriminalize weed.  I think the real reasons are that people who are stoned tend to care less about the world around them and are willing to let things slide simply because they don't notice or care anymore.  I know that it seems a little far-fetched, even conspiracy-like, but here in the US I've seen the quality of high-school graduates falling more and more the past 15 years.  I myself graduated with ten or so MORE credit hours than were nessicary.  People really don't even understand our founding laws IE the Constitution any more.  Recently, we've had a Health care Bill passed that included things like tanning bed taxes and other crap that isn't even geared toward making healthcare more affordable.  And there were 0 politicians who actually read it.  I'm sure many SAID they did, but somehow I doubt it.  The lack of understanding about how credit works has led to the sad fact that on average American households spend 25% more than they earn in one year!  Any company looking for capital investors with that kind of upsidedown bookkeeping would be hard pressed to get anybody to help them.  Personally I can't imagine being that way.  All of these facts make me think that the last thing we need is our governments giving legitimacy to being high.

[misanthrope]

In the UK I think weed should be lagalized. I can't comment on other countries because I don't live there. However, here we do have a problem with contaminated cannabis and when I was a teenager the most popular thing around was "soapbar" (for Americans - this was a little bit of Maroc hash from Spain combined with wonderful ingredients such as motor/sunflower oil, tyres, straw, plastic, henna etc). Great for your lungs when you're 15 and don't know any better - I even know people who smoke soapbar to this day, despite knowing what it is.

This is what happens when a criminal element controls the weed. It is important to remember that most people are not like us, in that they can enjoy it and leave it - should their lungs be forced to be damaged by harmful chemicals? Human beings will always seek to alter their conciousnesses, regardless of laws, and should not be punished for doing so. Also, believe it or not, the fact that cannabis is illegal is a big draw for a lot of rebellious teenagers. It's very telling that, in Holland, where top quality stuff is available easily everywhere, a MUCH LOWER percentage of young people smoke weed - a lot of them consider it a niche thing -  something you either like or you don't - something your Dad thought was cool. Here, all youngsters feel they want to try weed for the "cool" factor.

I truly believe that just because there are addictive personalities like myself, doesn't mean everyone should be banned from enjoying things. It would be like banning chocolate because morbidly obese people exist.

Another point, and I'm sure any other UK people out there will confirm I'm not lying on this: every weekend go to any town centre at night; you will see grown men and women fighting, puking and pissing in the streets. These people cost the NHS a lot of money when they injure themselves/others. It seems crazy to me that a substance which makes people behave like that is perfectly legal while weed is not. Alcohol has a much wider margin of abuse than cannabis and I can't help but feel that if a few good spliffs was these people's Friday night treat rather than ten pints you might have a healthier, happier society. From a selfish point of view, I'd much rather those people were at home, smoking and discussing current affairs than punching people in the face in the street in a drink induced rage.

Really, the best solution would be to legalize the skunk, but to tax it heavily. With the extra revenue raised we could afford to provide more treatment for those who end up being addicted to substances of ANY kind. The rich and famous get "rehab" but there is no help out there for the average person - tax the weed and there could be.

On a final note, I think it should be investigated what causes some of us to hit weed/other stuff so hard, when others can take or leave it. I feel it was isolation, low self confidence and boredom which brought me to habitual, addictive weed use. If there had been more help/facilities for boys like me I might not be here now and may have only dabbled in weed. It is similar with other people who scrounge the benefits - TREAT THE ROOT CAUSES - NOT THE SYMPTOMS - more jobs, more aspirational education and higher wages would encourage people to work and not scrounge.

TREAT THE ROOT CAUSES - NOT THE SYMPTOMS - making weed illegal for everyone IS treating the symptom, not the cause. Cannabis can be a health problem, but I don't see it as a criminal justice problem.

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this as I could well be wrong.

Mis

[GlobalNonCompliance]

We might not have soapbar here in America (i remember hearing about the stuff from overgrow.com before it got shut down.) but remember there are people behind those criminal elements. you must remember it was really deliberate created, the security forces allowed that soapbar to inflitrate into the U.K, your government (or the powers that be)  WANTED young adolescents filling there lungs with that shit. We are experimented on daily, weekly, monthly and yearly and drug addicts and substance abusers are no exception. Here's there thoughts, "Hey you won't take our prescription pill poisons that we gave rats for 2 years just to make sure it was INSTANTLY give you cancer and we've been trying to medicate you since you came outta ya moma's womb, we might as well poison the natural stuff you know should be ok for you and we let in-in small numbers so its worth as much per ounce as gold."

I'll steer a little bit away from the conspiracy stuff now, but I gotta mention here in AMERICA we INVENTED the war on drugs, and yes toxic poison weed ABOUNDS everywhere. It's called Beasters around here, and it is allowed to be smuggled in from Canada CHALK FULL of chemical fertilizer, it is known to cause schizophrenia, and many many dissociative orders/ anxiety orders. I only hope mine will not be with me for the rest of my life. It doesn't burn well, in fact sparks some times when light, and its about as dense as a rock. High times has mentioned it some, but pretty much its a chemmy as you can get, yet people still pay 40 smackers for it because its better than mersh, not for your health but it gets you higher with less weed.

[dahoosafeth]

Legalize it. I know we all have gone through our tough times with weed, but please think back; it was a lot of fun, and on a short term basis pretty harmless. I'm sure we ALL know some guys who smoke in moderation, or smoke a lot and live their lives just fine. Most of them I'll bet. I still do believe cannabis is fairly benign; which is what makes it so destructive- its the EASIEST to abuse. Too much of anything is a bad thing, that's the over-arching moral here, not that pot is bad on its own. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those hippy 'pot is the greatest' people. I take (took) it for what it is, just some entertainment and getting a high - of course its not good for you - In fact it really amazes me how many pot heads believe its harmless. Well anyways, that's not really the point I'm getting at. Whether pot is too.. distruptive to legalize is still a gray debate.

Why? Lack of information. How much have we all suffered here because of this lack of information? To be honest it's just difficult, if not impossible to get good information on the effects of weed. We ( people on this forum) do now, and I'm SURE, that pot turned out different than either side (pro against pot) made it out to be. Why do people abuse it? Cos they just don't know, just don't know whats around the corner. Legalize it, study it, cut out all the crap, so we can safely regulate it, assess its risks as well as its pros. Oh, and lets not forget the $$$ that'll come out of it, the world does need it guys  . Not to mention the fact that THC is a fascinating substance medically.

Oh and all of misanthropes points  , nailed a bunch of good points.

I really do feel that restriction is not the answer in this case. I stand by what I said earlier about pot being more benign than other drugs, and I do believe by legalization and regulation we can stop people from having the experiences we had.

[Double A]

I think it should be legal, just like tobacco and alcohol.

Any substance can be abused, or really any THING can be abused.


-Double A